Chrysler Repair: 2.5 Distributor Problem, camshaft position sensor, pulley bolt

Question
Hello again Ronald!

I've been trying to get through for days, I finally managed.
I hope you still remember my problem, if not i included the past history since I could no longer continue with a follow-up.

To summarize my problem i'm having distributor problems.
You told me to measure the pulse and orange wires and they're both fine now yet the car still wont start.

There's no spark for some reason. I'm getting 0.3v - 5v on the pulse. And 8.8v on the orange wire.

Do those numbers mean the distributor should be good?
What else could be wrong?

- Pete


PS. I nominated you two times for the last two questions, it let me do it this time for some reason.

QUESTION: Hi Ronald,

Thanks so much for replying to my question.
And by the way Merry Christmas to you and your family.

I am a little bit confused as to how I must perform this test even though i've read it in past posts.

I unplugged the large 6 pin connector from the distributor and left the small 2 pin connector plugged. I inserted both probes of my multimeter to the blue/dark and tan/yellow wires of the connector and cranked the engine by hand while the ignition was ON.

Or was I supposed to put the probes on the distributor's pin's instead of the wire connector?

I got 4.95 volts out of the connector but never changed as I cranked.

And of course I will click on the Thank/rate expert for you!
Just let me find it because I don't see it. But count on it!
Best of wishes to you on your competition.



-Pete


Hi Pete,
I would believe that the used distributor from the 'yard' also has a failing camshaft position sensor. You can test it out in the failed setting (it will probably recover when it cools down)
by measuring the voltage between the signal wire and the ground wire (tan/yellow and black/light blue) while cranking it over by hand using a wrench on the crank pulley bolt and with the ignition "on". You should see the voltage pulse between 5 and 0.3V several times per revolution. Those wires go to pins 33 and 43 of the pcm.  
On the tps, check to be sure that the orange/dark blue wire doesn't show 5v or 12v which would be a short. It goes to pin 35 of the pcm.
Roland
PS: May I ask a favor of you? I am competing to be the 'volunteer of the month' at Allexperts which I will achieve by getting the most nominations from questioners. If you will click on the "Thank/rate the expert" button below you will arrive at a page which asks whether to nominate me for that recognition. If you would then click on the "yes" I would be most appreciative.
PPS:Sorry for the delay as I just found your question in the 'pool' to which it had been referred

ANSWER: Hi Pete,
No, to test the cam sensor function in the distributor the 6-pin plug has to be connected to the distributor and you will have to take some fine straight pins and probe through the insulation of the wires, or probe into the wire's socket in the back of the plug, to make contact. You should find a solid 8V on the orange wire compared to chassis ground (that is what powers the sensor). Then measuring between the tan/yellow and black/light blue (pins 3 and 1) you should see the oscillating 5v to 0.3v as you turn the engine by hand. So try that and see if you get that multiple pulsing or not. Of course if you do it should start. If it starts and quits again then test immediately for pulsing in the 'failed' condition.
Roland.
I really appreciate your looking around for the "Thank/rate" tab and giving me yes where you see the question about a nomination. And by the way, you can go back to your earlier questions to me and do it again as the management doesn't limit the number of times a given questioner can nominate an expert (strange as it seems, but those are the ground rules).

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Ronald,

I'm coming back once more to report my findings and seak your answer.
The Orange cable read out 8.85 volts.
While the tan/yellow and black/blue wires read out between 1.0 and 5.0 volts. Half a turn it oscillated to 5, and another half turn back down to 1.0
The engine wont start, even if cold. It just wont start.
This happened last time until I changed the distributor but then died for good again.

Thanks for your help again :)

-Pete

ANSWER: Hi Pete,
From what I have read, the pulsing should be from 5 to near 0 volts, not to near 1 volt. As a double check on this, have you tested for spark at one of the spark plugs?
Remove a plug cap, remove the spark plug, reattach cap it to its spark plug, then hold the two  by the rubber cap but touch the threads of the spark plug to the nearby cylinder head and have a helper crank over the engine. If you are getting sparking acrosss the plug electrodes then the distributor is not the problem. If you aren't getting sparking then I would believe that the used distributor is defective.
Roland
PS: You have been so kind to nominate me to be volunteer of the month previously. The rules of the contest allow each answer to be considered separately for a questioner, and you are permitted to nominate me again with this answer if you so-choose. I would appreciate your doing that.
PPS: Pete, I notice that you appear to have done a thank/rate right after I gave you the quick one sentance response. Did you actually do that, and choose not to nominate me, or is that false response? For some reason many of my questioners are showing a virtually instant response to my brief one sentance response, showing a 'no' answer, before I even get back to them with the full answer. Did you give that quick a response? If you will tell me it will remove a mystery.
Roland

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Ronald,

Indeed the pulsing is at 1.0, i'll check again.

I've tested for a spark on multiple cylinders and there is none. I've tested it as you said, and also tested it with an external tester. I'll test again though.
I'm thinking of buying a new coil and crank angle sensor to replace my distributor ones. They go for about $50 both.

As for the reply for the last reply you sent me with the quick one sentence response, I did not click the Thank/rate button. Maybe the system assumed I didnt want to nominate you?
I'll try doing it on both this and the last reply, you asolutely deserve it for helping us baddies out.  :)


-Pete
Answer:  Hi Pete,
Thanks for that info, I will pursue it. How about fault codes before you get into all that expense. The crank sensor is an 0320 and the cam/distributor is an 0340. Thanks, buddy.
Roland
PS: see if you are blocked from rating me on this one. They may have institute a 'limit' without telling us.
More questions? Ask a "Follow-up". If I am shown as "unable to take questions" try again in an hour or so as I add opportunities to ask a question, one-at-a-time, throughout the day, as my other activities allow  

Answer
Hi Pete,
You need to also show 12V on the dark green/orange wire that is attached to the other plug at the distributor while you are cranking it over, so check to be sure that is present by pulling that single wire plug and measuring between its pin and battery - post or a chassis ground. It will be there for about 1 second then you turn the key to 'run', drop out, then return when you start cranking. That would be the 'final proof' that the sensor is doing its 'thing'. The only other possibilities then for no spark would be a bad rotor (measure between the rotor tip and the rotor button to assure continuity of the connection) or that the spark coil is bad. The resistance between the tower of the coil and its metal body should be about 12,000 ohms, and the resistance between 12V wire's socket of the 2-pin plug and pin 6 or the 6-pin  plug socket of the distributor should be about 0.5 ohms.
Good work on showing the cam sensor is pulsing. Now finish out the rest of the distributor testing as shown above.
Roland
PS Thanks for the nominations. Because of my discontent with the way the site runs this 'recognition' program I have decided to drop out of the rating/nomination process.