QuestionThe symptoms:
1. When I turn off the key, the engine will keep running for a while (10-20 sec), then stumble and die eventually, with the odometer/gear display still lit, and the oil light on dimly, and it would beep randomly like a headlight/seatbelt warning. The only way to stop the lights/beeping is to remove either of the 10A mini fuses in the top row of the under-hood fuse panel, or disconnect the forward PCM connector. I have figured a workaround: with the engine running, turn off the key for a second, then turn it back on to the run position until the engine dies, then turn it off. Inconvenient, but it works.
2. A few weeks later, something new: when I start the car cold, it starts right up. If I go somewhere, turn it off, and come back before it cools down, it won't start. Cranks just fine, but doesn't turn over. If I keep cranking for ~20 seconds, it will eventually start. I notice that while cranking, the "Service Engine Soon" (SES) light will go out, and when I keep cranking, the light eventually comes back on, and then it starts. Since then, I've been cranking it until the light goes out, turning off the key, then trying again, and it usually takes three or four tries at six or so seconds per try to make it start (about twenty seconds total, you may notice). It's been getting progressively worse, until it got to a point last week where it would not start at all when warm, even after an hour's cooldown. This improved when I changed the air filter and cleaned the contacts on both PCM connectors this weekend, but it still takes more cranking than it should (5-6 seconds vs 1-2 seconds when cold). I tried replacing the ignition switch, no change.
3. It will occasionally stall when slowing down for a turn or stop, but not until I'm under 10MPH or so. Then I have to deal with symptom #2 while on the side of the road. Like #2, this has gotten progressively worse, until it would stall every time I slowed down. The workaround: drop to neutral when approaching a turn or stop, the put it back in drive to take off. It has never stalled once in neutral.
Here's the hair-puller: #1 will go away if I disconnect the instrument cluster while it's running. It won't start at all without the cluster connected, so no affect on #2. I'm not about to try driving without it, so I can't say if #3 would be affected. I borrowed a cluster from a friend's 96 Cirrus, and it acted exactly the same way WRT #1. The oil light is always on dimly when the car is running, but steady dim, not flickering as with marginal oil pressure. I can't find any wiring diagrams to show me how the oil light is driven, so I can't tell where to look for a diagnosis.
I have no idea if any of the symptoms are related. The computer will sometimes throw a code during an occurrence of #1 or #2, 11 and 54, so I replaced the Camshaft Position Sensor, but nothing changed. Every now and then it will throw a 32 while driving, but there are no engine performance issues (hiccups, stutters, or stalls while idling) to point to an EGR problem.
My next guess is the PCM. I know they're easily swapped physically, but I recall reading something about them needing to be programmed for the VIN. Can you confirm or deny this? If so, how would one go about said programming? Could it be swapped just long enough to see if it displays the same aberrant behavior?
Lastly, I have seen some wonderful wiring diagrams posted from DealerConnect in various places around the 'Net, and would love to have access to such a resource. Do you know if they have a program for owner access, or some other way for me to get in? Also, someone is offering to sell me the supplement factory manual for my car, but as I understand it, this book only serves to point out the differences between the convertible and the Cirrus/Stratus. Do you know if it's complete enough to be useful without having the the other book as well?
I know I just wrote you a freakin' novel for a question, but any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. I actually used to serve as an expert here for air-cooled VWs years ago, so I know how overwhelming it can be.
AnswerHappy New Year, Kevin!
May I ask for your help?
I need your vote of confidence.
I'm in a close race to be recognized as 'Volunteer of the Month' at Allexperts
Purely symbolic, but it means alot to me.
Please click on "Thank/rate the expert" button below/left
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Click on the "YES"
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Thanks for taking a moment to help a fellow Chrysler-owner.
Roland
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Hi Kevin,
I believe that you would profit from a full set of wiring diagrams so that you would have them to troubleshoot the electical afterlife. The supplementary manual does indeed have the full set of pages for section 8 but I haven't gone thru a page by page comparison to the Cirrus/Stratus manual that I also have to if how they differ it at all. Do you have either manual to work with? The supplement has groups 0,2,5,7,8,11,13,19,22, and 23. So it doesn't cover:differential and driveline, clutch, engine, fuel system (supply and entire injection/control system), heating/ventilation, emission control system. So alone the supplement will not be helpful for all engine mechanical or fuel control issues, a very large gap.
When you say you changed the cam shaft position sensor does that mean you put in a new distributor?
On #2 I would suggest that you try freeing up the function of the egr valve by spraying some WD-40 on the stem where it enters the valve body and moving the stem back and forth by means of the slot in the stem. That may deal with the hard hot start.
On #1 the observation that it goes away with the removal of the instrument cluster makes be wonder if somehow the voltage supplied directly from the battery on pin 5 of the red plug of the cluster is somehow crossing over to pin 2 of that plug or pin 5 of the blue plug which are 12V supplies that are not supposed to be powered unless the ignition switch is 'on' and flowing current through fuses 9, 10, 11. Might it be a short circuit in one of the other plug that occurs due to plugging it into the socket? That must be how the ignition continues to run with the ignition switch off which provides an alternative current path to fuses 9,10 and 11.
Please see if any of these suggestions are a help and let me know.
Roland
