QuestionHi.
Well, I replaced the body computer... there was no change at all. I replaced fuses 3 & 15. Ignition switch replaced. (checked wires and connectors for issues)
I can get codes, though no error codes, when the engine is running normally. Even when idling rough, I get no codes.
This last time it died (after the above replacements) I was in the left lane of a 3-lane highway, in construction. (REALLY!), going up a hill... (Kentucky). I really had no opportunity to check power at that point at the fuse box.
Short of a new car, what else should i check/replace?
Losing my ambition on this one..
George
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Hello again.
I purchased a DRBII with the SCI adapter (Adtron) and tested the vehicle when it was running 'normally'. I wrote all readings down. I then left it plugged in and drove it. At one point the check engine light came on, and I asked to read codes, no codes were available.
Frustrated I turned car off, used the key method, and received 2-2, then 5-5, for blinks. No code that way either.
Ok. Now I plug in the Adtron, start the car, and program the vehicle again, I get a communicating with vehicle message, and that's where it hung up. I turned off the vehicle, Unplugged Adtron, plugged it back in, key to 'on' and now it communicated.
I have since replaced the ASD relay and Upper O2 sensors.
Definitely confused. PS I found the body computer to the right of the steering wheel, a new one is $533.00 WOW!
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Body computer? What's that? I replace the ecm on the driver's fender, by the battery, and the one on the passenger side firewall. Where's this
body computer'? I am confused now.. but I am not resisting throwing another part at this beast... a drbII would cost me $200 to get, so...
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I have a 1993 Plymouth voyager, se. 3.3L, A604 trans. 245k miles. I have replaced: alternator, battery, cam, crank, Oxygen, MAP, coolant temp, ECM, Trans ECM, TPS, EGR valve, coil pak, wires, and plugs. Battery terminals are cleaned, then tightened securely. Charging system test showed 'good'.
Here is what still happens: while driving at any speed, but normally while on highway, the engine will just die, and all the gauges on the dashboard will 'freeze' in place.
If I put the van in 'neutral' it will not restart.
I still have accessory power for radio, lights, turn signals, etc. The engine will not crank at this point at all.
I must now manage to get safely across highway traffic to the side of the road where I MUST put car in 'park', and shut it off. Once it is shut off, in 'park', it normally restarts without incident until it happens again.
Yesterday however, it happened the same way again, but this time it would not restart. However, after putting it into 'park' and shutting the key 'off' and then trying to crank the engine, it did crank, but I had to disconnect the battery terminal and reconnect it before the van would restart. It then went 175 miles before dying again. But I did not need to remove cable this time.
After the last two incidents, I used the 'key' method to see if there were any codes, and there was no blinking of the check engine light at all.
As a test, While the van was running 'properly', I turned the key to shut the engine off, and the gauges all fell to 'off' location. then I moved shifter to 'neutral' while the car was still moving and the van restarted fine without having to park the van and shut key 'off'..
I couldn't find any similar issues like mine...
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Hi George,
This is interesting. I haven't run into this one before. After thinking and studying the '93 shop manual I suspect that you are having a failure of the CCD bus communication system. If you had access to a Chrysler diagnostic readout box II (DRB II) you might very well be able to pinpoint what exactly is causing the failure, but you might have to have it on board when it happened. It would plug into a blue 6-pin socket under the left side of the dash (data link connector). I believe that the the dash gauges freezing rather than dropping to the bottom of their scales is an indication that the data to produce the gauge readings are dropping out. Similarly I would not be surprised that the failure to crank, or or to start, etc. and the various permutations that you described to do so is the result of the CCD bus dropping out of function momentarily because they involve the PCM. The most recent experience with having to shut off the switch and then to disconnect the battery reminds me of similar snafus people have with the function of their vehicle's Body Computer qua the theft system, which is a module in the CCD bus system. (The ssystem modules are: PCM, TCM, Cluster, Air bag module, compass mini-trip, and the body computer). You have already of course replaced several of those. My suspicion is that the body computer may be the villain and that if you could get a used one at a modest price from a wreck of the same year and engine that it might solve the problem (though I generally resist throwing parts at a problem). I would not buy a new one however before trying to do a readout of the CCD system using the DRB II. You might want to also now take a close look at fuses 3 and 15 which power the body computer to see if either one might have a crack in the internal wire which is causing an intermittent failure of the fuse. Of course it could be just a flakey connection of one of the two "twisted pair" wires that constitute the backbone 'harness' that connects all the CCD the modules.
I have the '94 CCD bus manual so if you got some sort of an indication from a DRB II readout as to the nature of the problem there may well be a short troubleshoot that would be revelatory. The failure to get a readout of codes points also to the CCD bus failure. Can you get codes at times when things are operating normally?
Let me know what you think and if anything I have questioned has an answer.
Get back via the comment portion of the "rate the expert" option.
Roland
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Hi George,
The combination body controller (more commonly known as the body computer) is the heart of the digital communication system. It provides the 2.5V + and - bias that the digital data is carried on and handles all sorts of tasks that would otherwise require much more wiring. I listed all the modules that are tied together in this system in my first reply. If the body computer was compromised it would very well shut down all the communication between the engine and the trans which would of course shut down the powertrain and the cluster as I explained. No guarantee of course, thus the desirability of reading out the fault codes related to that system. The DRB II is of course not surpassed by the DRB III but you might find a sympathetic Chrysler mechanic who has one who let you borrow it to try and catch it in the act of malfunctioning. Where do you live? (I'm in the SF Bay area).
The body computer is under the dash to the right of the steering wheel and it has the sound source for the warning chime built into it so that will steer you to where it is. It has 2 25-pin plugs.
Another possibility is that you have a bad contact in the ignition switch so that the power to fuse 15 and to the PCM and TCM is lost intermittently which would also cause the shut down of the engine and the bus. When the shutdown happens again you should have on board a voltmeter and check whether you have lost the power to fuses 13, 14, 15 by measuring for 12V between any one of those fuses and a shiny body ground point (Measure it now when you have the key in the run position; then when it dies check it the same way without touching the ignition switch and if it is not present that would be your explanation). That section of the switch comes out on pin 2 of the 7 pins plug at the ignition switch and has a dark blue wire. But the wire goes right to fuses 13, 14, 15 so you can look there more easily.
So why not do that, and if that doesn't explain it, then try to find a DRB II to borrow.
Roland
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Hi George,
I hear your confusion. Did you ever get a "no response" message on the DRB? If so there are about 20 trouble shooting pages on that subject in the powertrain manual that you might want to review. I could xerox and mail these to you. It would cost me about $2.50 to do that and you can send me back stamps after you receive them.
I still think you should measure for voltage at the fuses I indentified the next time it fails, so as to eliminate the possibility that you simply have a bad ignition switch.
The 22 code says that the coolant temp sensor voltage is out of range, so if that persists (disconnect the battery to erase it and see if it comes back, note that doing that will give you a code 12 which you should ignore) you might replace that, although it would not cause a stall such as you describe in my judgement. The 55 code means "end of readout". The engine light coming on once may not be enough to set a code, it depends upon what the problem observed was as to whether it passes the threshold to set a code or not.
Once you prove that there is voltage on the fuses after the failure and refusal to start symptom, then if you did get the 'no response' message those pages may point you in the right direction.
After all those are tried then searching for a replacement body computer might be the final action.
Roland
AnswerHi George,
I thought of another couple of possible things to do. Because the gauges freeze in place, I am thinking that the cluster itself could be shorting out the CCD. So one thing you might try is to remove the plug from the cluster and drive it for a while that way and see if that eliminates the engine stalling out.
The other would be to check the battery clamps, and trace the ground (-) strap to its connection to the frame rail as well as the + cable to its connection to the torpedo-shaped disconnect and look at the disconnect itself to see if that might be corroded. Check all those connections and bolt-downs for a clean/tight condition.
Next time the shutdown occurs, check whether the underhood light is working or not, as soon as you stop, as that is also powered by the power supply for the TCM.
We are getting down to "basics" here which is what you do when things get drastic.
Roland
