QuestionHi there -
Twice now, our 2002 T&C has lost power while the engine was running. You go to start it back up and nothing happens.
In both cases, we had the van towed to the local Chrysler dealer.
On the first repair, they said that the starter, fuse, and the relay board were gone, which I authorized them to replace. They also recommended I replace the solenoid (they thought it was bad), which I opted not to do because I wasn't convinced that they weren't replacing it purely as a pre-emptive measure.
We got the van back and had it for maybe 2 hours when we lost power at a red light. One second the engine is running, next second it quits and we're stuck. We get it towed to Chrysler...we're told everything is fried again (fixed on their dime this time).
Chrysler believes that our Python alarm system was/is shorting everything out, so Chrysler disconnected whatever wire went to (I think) the relay board (I guess maybe the ignition is disabled if someone trips the alarm?). They tell me they can't get the van to die when starting it now.
When we drove it off the lot, we took it to where the alarm was installed (Circuit City), where we were told that all was fine with the install; they went through it all with us in great detail and we were satisfied.
So, this afternoon - about 2-3 weeks after we got the van back a second time - we started the van and got ready to back out of our driveway, and we again lost power. We have battery, but the car won't turn over when started.
Back to square one again, it appears.
We're about $750 into this problem with no apparent solution, as we're caught in the middle of a "Chrysler says it's a third-party problem/third party says it's not us" pattern.
The only other thing I can think to do is pay gobs of money to have Chrysler go through our entire electrical system to see what's really causing this.
Any suggestions? I gotta "break this chain!" :-)
Thanks!
AnswerHi Kevin,
The fact that the engine dies and then won't start (no starter key position response from the starter motor) would make me suspect that it is a fundamental voltage, current supply issue between the battery and the engine control circuit and the battery and the starter motor circuit. About the only two obvious common aspects of those two circuits is that they need battery voltage to operate. The voltage from the + post goes to the starter motor on a fat red wire and to the power distribution center on a black wire that originates at the + post clamp. Then there are two wires (or maybe 3) on the - post clamp: one to the engine head, one to the frame of the van below the battery, and possibly one to the transmission. If any of those wires were loose or the clamp to post interfaces were oxidized to prevent a good connection then the total failure that you describe could happen intermittantly. So my first response would be to remove the clamp on the - post and polish the post and the inside surface of the clamp with a battery brusn, and while still disconnected do the same thing to the + post clamp. Then check the connection of ground (-)wires that I have described to their respective points to be sure that they are clean, shiney, and attached firmly.
Then reconnect the + post clamp to the battery and then the (-) post clamp (in that order so as not risk a short circuit thru you wrench touching a piece of metal on the body when the dealing with the (+) post).
Once you have satisfied yourself that the battery is well connected, I would then analyze the starter circuit:
The circuit that provides power to the starter motor has two legs. First leg of the circuit consists of the ignition switch, the park-neutral safety switch that prevents the starter unless the trans is in either of those gear settings, the starter relay (located under the hood in the box near the battery with a removable lid which contains fuses and square components called electrical relays = switches), and the wires that connect these components together and then sends a current to the starter motor's switch (which if it were working makes the loud click sound) that actually allows the current of the other leg (on the big red wire from the battery directly to the starter) to run thru the motor. The fact that you don't hear the click means the first leg has the problem.
The ignition switch could have faulty internal contacts, the safety switch may be slightly out of adjustment so it won't close even though you are in park or neutral, the relay in the box can be defective, or the starter motor switch could be defective.
About all you can do without a volt-ohm meter to measure whether the voltage goes thru that string of components is to try the switches and listen carefully. I would begin by trying to tilt the key up or down or side to side while trying the starter position in case the ignition switch is loose in its connections. Then I would try moving the gear shift lever to either extreme from its resting position while it is set in park or neutral to see if that might be the answer. You could even try starting in reverse or drive gear as long as you have your parking and foot brakes applied when you do this. If that doesn't produce response then you need to open the box under the hood and with the help of another person listen to see whether the starter relay in the box (possibly identified on the box lid or the board where the relays are placed) makes a soft click sound when the helper tries the starter using the ignition key. If it clicks that means the ignition switch, the safety switch and the wires connecting them are o.k. If not, then one or the other of the components is bad. If o.k. then you need a meter to test if the relay is actually sending voltage on a brown wire to the starter motor's switch. (I am assuming that you don't hear a loud click coming from the starter motor when you try it with the help of a jumper). If you did hear that loud click, then either the red wire is not connected well or the starter motor is bad. But all of the above assumes there is no loud click from the starter motor proper)
So you may end up needing a meter or simple neon test light to verify the electrical function of the relay in the box (and the connection of the brown wire from the relay to the starter motor switch) by touching one end to the brown wire's contact at the starter motor switch and the other end to the engine block to see if it lights when a helper tries the key.
The stalling of the van engine might be understood if you could do a code readout of the fault codes stored in the engine controller. Some auto parts stores (e.g. Autozone) will do that for you free. I suspect there will be code that says the voltage to the controller was disconnected recently (past 50 to 100) key cycles, which would verify that the issue is the battery connections.
If that doesn't prove out to be of help please let me know. I am not familiar with the action of the aftermarket security system but I wonder whether it both defeats the engine and the starter system. The factory unit only defeats the engine from running, not the starter system also. But if the one you have does that, then it would be suspect in my mind.
That is about the best I can come up with from a distance.
Roland
