QuestionI have a 1995 Concorde 3.5L v6 with 87,000 miles on it. Many times it will not start until I 'play" with it by turning the key numerous times. All the lights and bells come on and I may hear NOTHING from the engine or I may hear a click and sometimes I hear a 'whirrrrr' noise that will last for a few seconds. I amsure the batter is strong. I have tried in PARK and Neutral with the same results. It will eventually 'catch'. I think it is most likely that I need a new starter. Any Ideas? Thank you!
AnswerHi Gary,
If you can be certain that the low current side of the starter motor circuit is always good, then indeed a focus on the high current wire (red) from the battery to the starter motor (are the battery clamps shiney and tight) and the starter solenoid (the loud click) and the whirring sound (the commutator of the starter motor), and the cranking sound (when the bendix gear on the commutator engages the teeth of the flex plate attached to the crankshaft). But I would first verify that the starter relay reliably responds to every attempt to start by opening the power distribution center box in the engine compartment behind and to the left of the battery. The starter relay is the third in the front row of four relays and it should click softly when the starter is tried (though the louder click of the starter motor solenoid which it simultaneously enegizes may drown out the softer click. If it does, and if you always get the whirring sound, then I would agree that either the bendix unit or possibly a worn tooth on the flex plate which otherwise engages the bendix gear is your problem. That would be then a need for a new/rebuilt starter.
So I would have a helper sit in the driver's seat and try to start it while you listen under the hood to see if there is one very regular pattern when it doesn't start. If you can describe that I can suggest which of the items, all of which need to work to start, is compromised as to its function.
Here is a general description that I sent to another Chrysler owner about the entire starter system:
"The circuit that provides power to the starter motor has two legs. First leg of the circuit consists of the ignition switch, the park-neutral safety switch that prevents the starter unless the trans is in either of those gear settings, the starter relay (located under the hood in the box near the battery with a removable lid which contains fuses and square components called electrical relays = switches), and the wires that connect these components together and then sends a current to the starter motor's switch (which if it were working makes the loud click sound) that actually allows the current of the other leg (on the big red wire from the battery directly to the starter) to run thru the motor. The fact that you don't hear the click means the first leg has the problem.
The ignition switch could have faulty internal contacts, the safety switch may be slightly out of adjustment so it won't close even though you are in park or neutral, the relay in the box can be defective, or the starter motor switch could be defective.
About all you can do without a volt-ohm meter to measure whether the voltage goes thru that string of components is to try the switches and listen carefully. I would begin by trying to tilt the key up or down or side to side while trying the starter position in case the ignition switch is loose in its connections. Then I would try moving the gear shift lever to either extreme from its resting position while it is set in park or neutral to see if that might be the answer. You could even try starting in reverse or drive gear as long as you have your parking and foot brakes applied when you do this. If that doesn't produce response then you need to open the box under the hood and with the help of another person listen to see whether the starter relay in the box (possibly identified on the box lid or the board where the relays are placed) makes a soft click sound when the helper tries the starter using the ignition key. If it clicks that means the ignition switch, the safety switch and the wires connecting them are o.k. If not, then one or the other of the components is bad. If o.k. then you need a meter to test if the relay is actually sending voltage on a brown wire to the starter motor's switch. (I am assuming that you don't hear a loud click coming from the starter motor when you try it with the help of a jumper). If you did hear that loud click, then either the red wire is not connected well or the starter motor is bad. But all of the above assumes there is no loud click from the starter motor proper)
So you may end up needing a meter or simple neon test light to verify the electrical function of the relay in the box (and the connection of the brown wire from the relay to the starter motor switch) by touching one end to the brown wire's contact at the starter motor switch and the other end to the engine block to see if it lights when a helper tries the key.
Those are the components and things you can try.
If you can get the loud click at the starter motor, but still no action by the motor, then you have to test the other leg: there is a large red wire from the battery to the starter motor that needs to be attached at both ends with clamps that are not corroded and are tight. But because you are dealing with a live wire it should not be touched with a metal wrench without first detaching the clamp on the -post of the battery so you don't accidentally cause a short circuit through the wrench touching both the wire and a metal part of the body or engine. After detaching the -post clamp you can access whether that large red wire is tightly attached at both ends. Then reconnect the -post of the battery.
One last thing to check is that the ground strap, a large black wire from the rear of the engine's cylinder head to the body or to the -post of the battery is tight at both ends of its connection. That is the return path for current from the starter motor to the battery that has to be present if the motor is to run.
Let me know if you have other questions after trying these things."
So see if you can find out the weak link in the chain of events that leads to the starter cranking the engine. The starter motor is the most expensive link, and you want to eliminate the other possibilities before changing it out.
Roland
