Question-------------------------
Followup To
Question -
My son was driving his 92 lebaron (3.0) to school when he slipped on some ice and went in the ditch. After doing this he turned the key off and shut down the engine. He got out and immediately noticed a small flame under the hood. The flame was between the radiator and engine, it was put out shortly afterwards by the fire dept. Surprisingly enough, it didn't seem to damage too much. The distributer and the front plug wires, the fan and radiater overflow tank and the oil fill cap. We went and got the stuff at the junk yard and replaced it all. Now there isn't any spark at all. What do you think it could be? Any suggestions? My son, Jake claimed the pressure from the fire hose was quite strong. Maybe the problem could have caused the fire? We just changed the oil two days prior and went through and checked all of the car out, like we do all the oil changes. We noticed nothing odd in this inspection.
PLEASE HELP!
Thanks, Mike
Answer -
Hi Mike,
Let us treat it like a normal no start situation. It is useful to know if there is truly no spark, or instead a spark for a second or so, when you do a 5 second crank. Then it would also be good to know if there is 12V on the + supply wire to the coil primary either not at all, for a second or so, or for the full 5 seconds of a 5 second crank. To determine the 12V question's answer, remove the 2 wire plug-in to the coil and notice the layout of the pins is a T. The + supply wire on the plug is the cross bar of the T. So please try to answer those two questions for me. Another observation is whether the fuel pump can be heard to run briefly when you first turn the ignition key to the run position. Is should be heard for about a second.
The other useful test is to find out if the engine controller has any fault codes stored in its memory. Try using the ignition key: turn it "on-off-on-off-on" and leave it "on" (doing this quickly, no longer than 5 seconds). By "on" I mean just the normal position when the engine is running, not the cranking position. The 'check engine' light will remain on when you leave the key in the "on" position with the engine still not running. But then watch the 'check engine' light to begin flashing, then pause, flashing, pause, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause and keep track of the numbers. Repeat the readout and verify the counts are correct. Then group them in pairs in the order that they came out, thus forming two digit numbers. You may notice that the pause is shorter between the digits of a given number, and longer between the numbers themselves. Then send me a 'follow-up' question telling me the results of your readout. By the way, 55 will be the last number (two groups of 5 flashes each) and that is the code for "end of readout".
I have the troubleshooting manual for the 3.0L engines and we can look up the possibilities of what is wrong based upon what fault codes you show. There is also an essay on fault codes at the site:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
which gives the meaning of the code numbers. But then you need to get specific info for what exactly might be the diagnostic tests or parts to replace to complete the repair. Let me know the codes and I can give you some direction. So write back with the results.
Roland
Hi Roland,
Well, I did what you asked and found that there isn't any power to the coil, I used a test lite and didn't get any juice to the "T" on the connecter. I also heard the fuel pump, so it seems that this is working properly. I did the test on the readings 3 or 4 times and got the same signal all times. The numbers were, to my understanding; 12, 42, and 11, then I did get the 55 to end the readings.
So if you could advise me further it would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
AnswerHi Mike,
Thanks for the evaluation of my initial efforts.
I feel a bit frustrated because in the course of responding I lost several paragraphs of pithy information that I now have to redo!
The 12 code means that the battery was disconnected at some time in the past 50-100 key cycles or similarly that the 60 way at the controller was disconnected. If that isn't so then there may be an issue with the basic battery supply wires.
The 11 code means that the crank reference signal from the distributor to the controller is missing and that is significant because that signal is needed to 'drive' the primary winding of the spark coil. That could be due to the rotor not turning when the engine is cranked (check for that, if so it means the timing belt is not connected between the crank shaft and the cam sprocket), the photo-optic sensor in the distributor that you got from the wrecker is bad, or that the wiring of the distributor to the controller was damaged. I can give you all the pin continuities to check out for those 4 wires but let's do that in the next exchange of messages. If the wiring proves out then maybe taking the distributor back to the yard for an exchange will be in order.
The 42 code says that there is something wrong with the Autoshutdown relay or its circuity, located in the power distribution center, next to the inboard-most relay. That relay's output is in fact the source of the 12V I asked you to check at the spark coil, so that too if missing will kill the spark. So you really have a double whammy on why no spark: both ends of the primary winding could be not in their respective circuits. I woud begin by verifying that the continuity between the "T" lead and pin 29 of the ASD relay socket (that is the pin nearest to the fuses).
So do those checks, and write back and we'll go from there.
Roland
