Question-------------------------
Followup To
Question -
Hi Rolland me again. I am still having problems with my concorde. I have tried just about everything I can think of and now i need a little direction. It has had problems in the past which you replied RE: hard cold starting. Well the problem has evolved and now it has had trouble starting in all temperatures. Now it's not starting at all I have checked the fuel system from the fuel pump to the pressure at the fuel rail (presence only no actual guage) I have fuel all the way to the relief valve. I have sprayed starting fluid into the throtle body and it acts as if it wants to start but when the fluid is burned up it's back to just cranking. I am now in the process of checking that I have spark and I don't. SO now I'am back to the book unless you can help. Anything would be appreciated.
Answer -
Hi Rick,
If it ais catching with the aid of starter fluid then you have to have some spark. So I would check the fuel pressure using a gauge and for trouble codes which might tell us something about a mixture issue.
While it could be a fuel problem, the typical approach to a 'no start' is to determine if you have a spark and for how long. Take a phillips head screwdriver with a plastic handle and insert the metal tip of it into one of the rubber caps that you can remove from a spark plug (don't pull on the wire, just grasp the cap itself, rotate it back and forth while pulling to free it from the spark plug). Once the tip of the screw driver is put in the cap so as to touch the wire clip at the bottom of the cap which normally touches the tip of the spark plug, hold the 'assembly' via the plastic handle and rubber cap and position the metal shaft of the screw driver about 1/4" from the cylinder head or other metal part of the engine which is in contact with the head or block of the engine which serves as a ground. Then have a helper crank the engine while you observe whether a spark jumps across the gap from the screwdriver shaft to the metal ground point during a 5 second cranking period. See if you get spark for 5 seconds, 1-2 seconds or not at all.
If not at all, then disconnect the four wire plug to the spark coil pack and use a voltmeter or 12V neon glow lamp to measure the presence of 12V at the plug to the coil on the only contact that is not either adjacent to a bulge on the inner or outer surface of the plug. Put one lead of the tester on that socket, the other lead on the engine head. Let me know the if you get 12v for 5 seconds, 1-2 seconds, or not at all during a 5 second crank of the engine.
You might also want to check the engine controller for any faults it may have observed and stored as two digit code numbers. Try using the ignition key: turn it "on-off-on-off-on" and leave it "on" (doing this quickly, no longer than 5 seconds). Then watch the 'check engine' light to begin flashing, then pause, flashing, pause, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause and keep track of the numbers. Repeat the readout and verify the counts are correct. Then group them in pairs in the order that they came out, thus forming two digit numbers. You may notice that the pause is shorter between the digits of a given number, and longer between the numbers themselves. Then send me a 'follow-up' question telling me the results of your readout. By the way, 55 will be the last number (two groups of 5 flashes each) and that is the code for "end of readout".
There is also an essay on fault codes at the site:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
which gives the meaning of the code numbers. But then you need to get specific info for what exactly might be the diagnostic tests or parts to replace to complete the repair.
If the spark tests and the fault codes are unremarkable we may want to do a test of the fuel pressure. One thing to do now about that system is to listen, when you first turn on tne ignition switch to the 'run' position, to determine whether you hear a hum for about 1-2 seconds coming from the fuel punp to your rear. It might be easier to hear it if you open the driver's door so the sound coming from underneath the car is louder. Let me also know whether you hear that or not.
Roland
OK Rolland Iam ready to just blow it up! I checked the coil pack as you said and I had the 5 sec light while cranking, I then checked for the presence of fuel pressure and only a small amount will come out when I depress the relief valve. I next tried to chang the fuel filter and got the outlet side off but not the inlet side (Quick connect fittings yea right) I cranked it over while I had the outlet side off and had good flow. I reconnected it and still it won't start. I am thinking the fuel pressure regulator but have no way to check it and if there might be something else I would prefer to try it before I go and tear the top of the motor apart to get to it. Please help. I also ran the trouble codes and got a 12 (bat disconnect), 11 (crank position sensor)which I have checked voltage on and had 5 volts, and finally 55 the end code.
Thanks, Rick
AnswerHi Rick,
Did you verify that you got spark for the full 5 seconds of cranking? You said you got the 12v to the coil pack primary side but didn't say anything about the actual spark condition and longevity during the 5 second crank test. The 11 code cannot be ignored. If it is valid I wouldn't have expected the 12v to the coil pack to last for the full 5 seconds, but rather 1-2 seconds; it still it could be sufficient crank sensor signal to sustain the autoshutdown relay closed but there might be no spark signal going to the 3 coils in the pack or not all coils are getting signal. I would try one plug of each pair towers to verify that you have a good health spark on all 3.
Roland
