QuestionQUESTION: Hello,
I have a 56 Clipper Custom and the car runs fine in Low, but doesn't seem to want to go into 3rd gear in Drive or High. When it does go in occasionally, it stays in fine.
This car was used in Parades for many years. Brought it to several tranny places in Denver and they want up to 2K to rebuild it...(all have said the same thing.. total rebuild)... any idea what you think it may be? I read that there is a disc that may just be the problem, or some sort of pressure issue. One person suggested I take down the pan and clean everything out and replace the fluid..probably wouldn't hurt.
Look forward to your response.... would like to drive it on the highway (where it should be), but don't want to spend 2k on the tranny.
ANSWER: First, I'd like to make sure you understand how this transmission is supposed to work:
There are only 2 "gears", and the car can be driven in either the "H" position or the "D" position. In the "H" position, the high range clutch (the multi-layer clutch pack)is engaged from the start, and the only "shift" is when the direct drive clutch in the torque convertor "locks up", which should happen around 40 MPH at normal throttle position.
In the "D" position, the high range clutch pack is released at the start, and the low band is applied - this gives you a much better feel (Less slippage) at the start, followed by an "upshift" (the low band releases, and the high range clutch pack is applied simultaneously), this is what you are calling "second gear". This happens around 20-25 MPH, typically, and then at about 40, the torque convertor internal clutch locks up and you are in direct drive, which you would call "3rd" gear.
Now, from what you say, I gather that when the direct drive clutch is trying to lock up, you are feeling a lot of slippage, or perhaps you are feeling a roughness with perhaps a noise as it tries to engage. If this is the case, the direct drive clutch is worn, and the only cure is to replace it. Unfortunately, to replace that clutch requires removal of the torque convertor, which in turn requires removing either the engine or the transmission, since it the torque convertor is between the two major units.
Servicing the transmission with new fluid and cleaning the filter is not likely to improve the situation at all.
If there is some other symptom, tell me in detail what it does, when it does it, what you feel, and what you hear - I can perhaps give you some hints as to what to do.
$2000 to do a total rebuild on an Ultramatic is not a bad price - in fact it is a bit low - I suspect the shop you talked to have never done one. These are referred to in the trade as "Ultratraumatics", for good reason. Do not let ANYONE touch the transmission unless they are very familiar with them - they are quite tricky to rebuild.
Post a "follow up" question to me (don't use the "rate this answer" feature - I don't get those directly), with all the information you can give me, and I will try to help.
Good luck - I'll wait to hear more from you.
Dick
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Dick,
I have the stalk mounted push button shifter and across the top is N L H bottom is P R D. If I start in L all is fine (but no high gear). If I start in D, all is fine until I get to about 40 mph and then the shift should be to 3rd? but all I get just the engine revving at very high rpms.... most of the time..it doesn't 'catch' 3rd. It doesn't go in and out, doesn't make any noises, just doesn't catch it. I have tried to go to 50 and then let off the accelerator a little or even a lot..but 95% of the time nothing...
I have tried to push in H, but that doesn't do anything either.
Just to let you know that this worked OK about 2 years ago,as I drove it to my new home about 100 miles away and have only driven about 150 miles since then. Tranny oil is clean and full.
I was told that the original "disk" was made of cork and it was smoother shifting, but wore out quickly..hmmm 60K seems like it lasted OK, if that is what the problem is.
Look forward to any info you can give, thanks.
AnswerThe push button shifter makes diagnosing the problem a bit tougher, because there is no way to know that the shift motor is stopping in the exact right position for each push button.
When you say you tried to push "H", but it doesn't do anything. Can you clarify that for me. Do you mean the button won't stay pushed in, or do you mean the car doesn't move at all in "H", or do you mean it drives but does not upshift at 40 to direct drive.
The fact that it DOES upshift to direct drive SOMETIMES tells us that the direct drive clutch works and will hold, so the problem is either in the shift mechanism or in the throttle linkage, or possibly a particle of dirt is stuck in the governor (which tells it when to shift).
Unfortunately, the only way to track down what is going on is to install the test gauge set and measure the pressures at the various test point. Only an experienced Ultramatic mechanic is going to have the right equipment and manuals to do this, I'm sorry to say.
I hope you have a shop manual for the car - if not you should get one and perform the throttle linkage adjustment. In the meantime, inspect the linkage from the throttle rod back down to the transmission and make sure everything is hooked up and there are no loose nuts on the adjusters. Three things have to be right: 1. The throttle linkage from the foot pedal to the carburetor
2. the adjustable setting for the connector link from the throttle linkage to the kickdown relay rod (it crosses between the left and right head at the rear of the engine, and pushes/pulls on the kickdown rod that goes back to the transmission, and
3. The length and setting of the kickdown rod at the connection to the transmission throttle control valve, on the right side of the transmission toward the rear of the case, just above the pan.
Don't fiddle with any of those settings unless you have the shop manual to tell you where to set them, but do make sure all of those parts are present and there are no loose nuts etc. on them.
Your push buttons are correct, and the car is supposed to start off in "L" but stay in low gear, however, it should still go into direct drive in "L" if you accelerate to about 25 and then back off on the gas for a second - you should feel the torque convertor lock up, then the car will feel just like a manual transmission car in second gear (this is a great feature for descending long steep hills - the car really holds back so well you won't need the brakes). See if the car will do that - we'll learn if the direct drive clutch will hold in under that circumstance - and that will help with the diagnosis.
When you push "D", the car should start in low gear (same as "L", but upshift to high range at about 20 (you'll definitely feel this shift) and then the direct drive clutch should pull in at some higher speed - that is when the engine is running away on you, I suspect, but tell me if you feel that first shift and if it feels solid.
If you push "H", the car should start off more slowly, and the early shift won't occur, but it should still do the direct drive upshift at 40 or so.
Get back to me with your thoughts and findings on this, and we'll keep trying until we come up with a plan of action. I wish you weren't 1500 miles away - this would be much easier if I could see the car and drive it myself. Have you thought about moving to San Diego?
Just kidding,
Dick
