QuestionThanks for the response!
Honestly, I'm not looking to build a concours car.
I find that to be a bit pretentious, and quite a waste of money, not to mention, a totally irresponsible disregard for the purpose of these vehicles......fun!
From looking around, I think that my first choice sitting in that barn is a 1961 B Coupe, not unlike the one found here: http://www.356registry.org/Members/Zumbach/
My level of expertise is 0. However, I intend to do everything myself, with maybe the exception of heavy metal work, but I'm hoping to find a car that doesn't require that - I'll tackle floor pans, etc on my own.....
At any rate, I do want it as original as possible, and would prefer to find all original parts that can be restored, instead of buying new "vintage" stuff.
This is not because I'm somewhat of a snob - just a bit of a perfectionist :)
It will be driven, as frequently as I can drive it, although not daily. I'm in Chicago, and after putting that much time, money, and energy into redoing her, there is no way she's getting driven after the first snow of the year.
Just out of curiousity, what do you figure the cost of a project like this would be? From snooping around, I figure to spend about $8000 on the car, in great condition, and from there, I dunno how much on the restoration. Let's assume I have all the required tools available - what would YOU think you will spend on it, to get it to head-turning-on-a-Sunday-drive perfection?
Thanks again for the help...
-Adam
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Followup To
Question -
Hey Dave,
Just a quick question. I intend to buy a '61-64 356 coupe or cab very shortly here, and dump a load of time, love, and money into it. I'm curious as to what advice you could give me, being that I have never done a restoration before. Also, when looking for a vehicle, what problem spots to check before buying? TIA!
Adam Nichols
Answer -
Hi Adam. I love it when you say "quick question". Those are always the ones with the longest answers. In this case you've absolutely, postively hit on my favorite subject. Thanks.
Buying a 61-64 coupe or cabriolet is just about the most fun thing I can imagine! Somewhere in my archives, the ones that aren't filed in any particular order, I wrote an answer to your "what to look for--and what to look out for" question. I made a quick search for that answer, and haven't tripped on it yet. But I will! I'd like to re-read that and update it as necessary, then pass it on to you.
In the meantime, I'd suggest taking some time to think about what your dream really is. Here's a response I wrote to a fellow wanting to restore a 356B. I believe the issues raised here might help in you as well.
After you read it, write back to me using the All-experts follow-up feature and tell me more about the car as it will look when it's done.
Also, tell me what car you will be buying. I know you've said '61-'64 and coupe or cabriolet, but are you holding out for a particular model? The reason I ask is I have some very strong opinions about those cars and their values. Of course, the "value" is also a function of what you intend to do with it. But I'd be very interested in hearing your view on the 'ideal' find. Which car do you hope you find in the farmer's barn--all covered in dust but original?
Anyway here's that answer on the restoration of a B. I look forward to chatting more about this... write back to me please.
Dave
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A 356B, that's a nice car. I've got one too. I'm
> restoring it as we
> speak...actually that means it's up on a roll-around
> dolly I built for it,
> sitting in my garage, anxiously awaiting some of my
> attention. The only
> good news is that every day it sits there it
> appreciates in value. If it
> were rusting away I couldn't say that. It's in good
> shape, just needs me
> to focus. Anyway, enough about my situation.
>
> Here's what I think is a reasonable approach:
>
> You have to act like a contractor building a house.
> He/she contracts for
> all the specialists to do what they do best (cement
> people, framers,
> drywall installers, and painters). There are very
> few restoration
> companies that do a car from top to bottom. Those
> that do really only
> work on "classics". People with "classics" are the
> only ones who can
> afford these kind of shops. Your 'B' is a cool car
> but of all the
> collectable and classic Porsches there are several
> others that are or will
> be cherished long after we're gone and long before
> any 356B's are.
>
> So my point is to find the best mechanic, the best
> bodyman, the best
> painter and the best upholsterer you can, and you
> can afford, and take the
> car to each one in turn until it's the way you want
> it. Now, how to find
> any of these folks with 356 experience is the hard
> part. Probably the key
> is to consider long and hard what you want this car
> to be when you're
> done.
>
> Among the variations are:
>
> o A nationally known concours show car that is
> moved in an enclosed
> trailer from one event to another.
> o An all original ground up restored Porsche using
> all new but
> historically correct parts. Put up for sale after
> the restoration, not
> driven.
> o A beautiful restoration, not perfect, but
> attracts a lot of admiring
> glances and thumbs-ups as it's out on it's Sunday
> drives.
> o A beautiful restoration that was influenced to
> some extent by the
> owners personality, some individual/modern upgrades
> like aftermarket
> wheels, tires, stereo, etc. Paint is good but as a
> daily driver will
> eventually receive abuse from parking lot crazies.
>
> As you might imagine each of these cars would take
> different amounts of
> money and 356 experience.
>
> I'm sure you recognize that if there were a ready
> answer to your question,
> you would have found it without my help. My idea
> here is to have you step
> back a bit and visualize what the end product will
> be and then gauge just
> how much expertise (356 restoration experience + $)
> you need for each
> task. If you find you need a lot of 356 expertise,
> you may have to seek
> some advice from Porsche club members. The most
> well known is the Porsche
> Club of America.
>
> If I can be of any other help please write
> back...especially if you want
> to do some things yourself. I'd love to hear more
> about your little
> beauty.
>
> Dave
AnswerHi again!
I'm so glad you want to do much of the work yourself. That's the way I started and it is perfectly reasonable to do. The comments in my other answer were in response to a fellow who was looking for THE one shop to do everything for him.
For your purpose, the '61 B will be perfect. The C's and the SC's will be much more expensive to buy and will appreciate a bit more quickly because they have become the most sought after...especially the cabriolets. They really have only one advantage...four wheel disc brakes. It could be argued that discs are not an advantage...and you'll appreciate the relatively massive drum brakes of the B's. There are finned aluminum drums available that disapate heat as well as possible...so if your daily driving DOES NOT include six successive stops from 60 to zero...the drums will probably make you very happy.
As for choosing the right B, there is one and only one factor that makes or breaks a deal: RUST. Where there is a tiny bit of rust there will be more rust as you restore your car. People who fight rust do so because they own cars with rust problems...you don't own a car with rust problems because you have a right to select one that is rust-free. You'll likely pay a premium for an "Arizona" car or a "California" car. You should negotiate a huge discount on any car from any other state.
The rust will first appear under the battery and through it's pan. The longitudinals, the closed-in sections below the doors, will be the next to go and then the floorpans. Tiny little blisters on the paint are cancerous growths waiting for their chance to see sunlight. The monocoque body requires that all the panels are rigid and full strength...the lower suspension mounts are particularly susceptible to rot.
When you find a rust free car, buy it...and hold on to it forever. You may end up with the very last one.
Let's see now... you asked..."what do you figure the cost of a project like this would be? From snooping around, I figure to spend about $8000 on the car, in great condition, and from there, I dunno how much on the restoration."
I will be on the next plane to Arizona to go in with you on EVERY great car you can find for $8,000. Every $8,000 car you see will likely be described as great but will not be great. The great cars will be $15,000 plus. Rather than break your heart or your wallet here and now, here's what I'd suggest. So as not to be disappointed later, look at 100 cars while you save you money for a great one. By the time you see 85 you'll be very close to knowing the difference between great and not great. But wait till you see 100 before you start feeling like all that money is burning a hole in you pocket.
Patience my son!
In the meantime...write back to me with any questions about this answer. Write back to me whenever you find the car that "I just can't pass up". Especially if it is #3, or #21, or #51.
Dave
PS. Engine and transmission parts are expensive$$$, as is machine shop work. You can easily build an engine from all the new pieces, but if I were you I'd rank a car with a rust-free body and a low-mileage engine and transmission as #1. You can repaint the thing and buy every chrome and rubber piece in the world...and have a lot of fun doing it. DON'T DO what I always do: 1. Buy the car. 2. Tow the car home. 3. Pull the engine.
PS squared. Buy the paperback by Henry Elfrink covering the 356 models and their repair. It will be indispensible as a learning tool and as a reference.
