QuestionI have a Harmony 1011 with hydrostatic transmission and 11 h.p. engine. The oil sump seal failed last year and I took it to the authorized Honda repair center for repair. It took them several weeks to come up with an estimate of $800 for repair of the lower half of the engine (crankshaft, connecting rod, ring set, seals and gaskets) with parts marked up 100% for a total of $430 and labor $350.
After six mowings totaling about 12 hours, the engine stopped. I went through all of the troubleshooting in the shop manual, and ultimately checked for compression. You guessed it, there is no compression. I took off the valve cover and the starboard rocker arm was broken in half.
I called the same shop the next day and they said that they would look at it for $50, and let me know what is needed. I asked if they had checked the specs on the top half of the engine when they did the estimate last year, and couldn't get a confirmation. It seems to me that when an engine has a total loss of oil that results in the damage above, there should be some sort of procedure to check on the rest of the parts.
I mentioned that last year before authorizing the repair, I asked about getting a new engine, and was told that the engine would be $850 and $550 labor for a total of $1,400, plus tax and transport of the engine from Chicago. Since I was told the engine repair was for $800, I went that direction.
You probably have the idea that I am not too thrilled about having them "take another whack at it." Honda in Alpharetta, GA is aware of the whole affair, and are sympathetic, but their hands are really tied. They have provided a source for me to get a new engine without going through the dealer for $850, since their distributors can't sell to the public.
Now for the questions, can I do the engine swap with a little above average mechanical skill and the 54-page updated shop manual? Looking through the step by step engine removal and installation, it appears to be pretty straightforward. The only tool it appears I would need is a torque wrench.
The other question is about what will come with the engine from the Honda distributor? I assume that the starter, carburetor, gas tank, and other peripheral bolt on parts will need to transfer. Will I need to get gaskets for them, or will they be included with the engine?
Finally, this is the second Harmony I have had in 22 mowing seasons. The first lasted 18 years and I gave it to my daughter when she got her own house, and it is still running. I just think this one failed as a fluke, and want to keep using it. My neighbor let me use his new John Deere lawn tractor, and it is nice and powerful, but not as maneuverable and uses far more gasoline. There are areas of my acre of grass that the Deere had trouble keeping traction and I didn't want to risk damaging it, or me. I just think the Harmony design of having the engine and operator over the rear axle provide better traction, and does all of the cutting with only 11 h.p., instead of the typical 18-30 h.p. on most lawn tractors.
Now the question: Am I foolish to attempt to do what I describe above? Buying a new lawn tractor appears to be a $1,500 purchase, and they all appear to have a higher level of maintenance that doesn't appear to be very "Average Joe" friendly.
Sorry for the length of this question, but I thought it was needed to give you the picture.
thanks,
nick
richmond, va
AnswerHello Rick:
If you have Read the Procedure for the Engine Removal from the Frame; then you and I Both KNOW that the Dealer that the Shop you went to is Charging About $175.00us to $200.00us @ hr for Labor. I am Using the $550.00 to Switch the Engine with a New One before you had the Repairs Performed. Usually it Takes 1 Mechanic About 2.5 hrs to 3.0 hrs to Perform an Engine Swap. Most Small Engine Service Center Labor Prices Around my Home Charge $65.00 to $75.00 @ hr Labor. Judging from the Way you have Written your E-Mail; If you have to Purchase an Engine, then I Believe you will have No Problems if you Purchase and Install the Engine Yourself. You have the Shop/Service Manual for a Guide and I am Sure Myself or One of the Other Experts can Assist in Any Questions you May have. I Like the Honda Engine and Have Several Myself. I Also Use Briggs, Kohler, Lawnboy, Generac and Tecumseh. I Think I have About Every Engine you can Name, Now that I Think about it. LOL. I Prefer Long Detailed Questions. The Better Background and Technical Information I have the Better I can Understand the Problem and Assist in Making the Repair. Is the Tower that the Rocker Arm is Attached to Broken or is it the Rocker Arm or the Push Tube. I Understood that the Rocker Arm Itself had Broken. If the Rocker Arm is Broken, then Why Are you Thinking of an Engine Replacement and Not Replacing the Rocker Arm? Usually when an Engine Dumps Oil as you Described the Lower End is Replaced with New Parts Only. The Reason is Due to the Fact that Rarely are Any Top End Components Damaged. The Engine Usually Locks Up before Any Damage can Occur to the Top End. However, I ALWAYS Inspect the Top End Components and Make Sure they are Visibly in Good Condition and if So I Do Not Replace Them. The Rocker Arm Breaking May have Been from the Oil Dump or it May have Just Been Waiting to Happen. The $850 from the Dealer is the Average Price for the Engine you Described. I Always Tell my Questioners to Get the Best Deal they Can. Most Times you can Haggle with the Repair Shop and Get a Few Dollars Off the Labor. The Parts Prices are Usually Out of the Dealers Hands when it Comes to a Discount on Parts Unless you Purchase Enough to Qualify as a Jobber (Non Dealer Major Repair Shop). If a Mower is Properly Maintained and Dry Stored, they will Usually Last 15 - 20 Years for the Older Model Mowers and the Newer Ones are Good for About 10 -15 Years. This is on a Well Maintained Yard. You Need to Ask you Honda Rep about the Engine you are Purchasing. Usually for $850.00us, the Engine is Ready to Run. Simply Install and Add Oil and Gas and Go. Wilth Gas Prices the Way they Are and Prices in General Going Up this May be the Cost for a Short Block. On a Short Block you will have to Use your Carburetor and Intake and All the Other Bolt On Components. You May Even have to Use the Flywheel. We had High Winds and Hail Yesterday and I May have Jumped Around in Answering you Questions. I've Been Interrupted More than Once and have Been going with my Train of Thought. If I haven't Covered Everything, then Please, Let me Know when you Explain to me About the Rocker Arm. Thanks. May the All Mighty Bless You and Yours.
Respectfully
John
PS: I am Allowed to Answer 10 Questions a Day. If you See I am Maxxed Out, then Try Submitting your Question at or Just After 8pm EST (US). My New Day Starts then. Thanks.
Respectfully
John
