QuestionQUESTION: I own the above truck (240 CID straight six) and recently detailed the engine compartment as well as cleaned up the wiring. Before this all was working fine. Regarding the wiring, I took extra care labeling all wires and connections so that when they were rerouted, lengths of damaged wire replaced etc. that the circuits would remain as they were. When it came time to start it up, I turned the ignition switch to run (dash lights on, accessories work) and then held the switch momentarily to start. The starter cranked and kept cranking even after I released the key back to the run position, turned it to off and still cranking. I had to disconnect the battery from the solenoid. Upon attempting to reconnect battery to solenoid shorting occurred. Something was grounding. I removed the battery's pos. lead and bypassed the solenoid and starter and applied it to all other power circuits and all seemed fine. Tried to connect the battery + directly to the starter and zapp, shorting (multimeter shows no resistance between starter lead and ground, direct short). My question, why did the starter at first crank - then not stop - then short on second attempt to apply power.
Also, It appears I have a electronic ignition system that does not seem to be stock. There is a sealed ignition module mounted on the wheel well with no markings on it whatsoever and an electronic distributor (type with six rotating magnets and a sensor) that only says "Motorcraft" on it, no other markings. This distributor is also the type that uses 8mm wires with a cap that has male terminals similar to a spark plug's. It is using a standard 12 volt external coil. Do you know the model of this unit and anything about it. Maybe installed as a Ford upgrade years later made specifically for this engine being that it's Motorcraft?
Thanks for any help you can provide,
Michael Petruccione
ANSWER: Hi Michael,
OK you have a lot going on here, I'm going to go through this step by step to correct this issue. First of all, the problem with the starter is referred to as a "runaway Starter" also sometimes called a "Hot Starter". From what you have told me there is one of two things going on here.
1. When replacing the wires you did not wire the starter solenoid properly. On the solenoid there should be three wires. One thick one coming from the battery, Another thick one going to the starter and then another thinner wire "i believe it is on the S or F terminal" coming from the ignition. Check to make sure this is how you have it wired up. There should be no ground wires going to the solenoid the solenoid is grounded through the bolt that holds the solenoid to the vehicle chassis.
2. The solenoid is bad (possibly from improperly wiring it when you reconnected everything) and is in the locked or closed position, this would definitely cause the runaway starter problem. Replace the solenoid.
Before going to step two ensure that all your wiring is correct on the current solenoid in your truck, because if it is not and you put in a new solenoid and rewire it improperly again you will blow the new one and end up locking that one also.
NEXT:
The 1969 F250 did not come with a EIS (Electronic Ignition System) which by the way yours sounds like a "HD" or high distribution system just so you know. I do not know anything specific to your part because I do not have part numbers to reference, however, i know that an EIS was not available as an option for a 69 f250. It was available years later in the f250 series however it was never retro fitted to work for a 69 f250, so to me it sounds like one of two things has occurred here.
1. The engine was replaced at some point with a newer engine to gain more horsepower possibly (or for any other number of reasons) and this system was installed to make the engine run properly.
2. This system was put in by the prior owner at some point after it was originally built and they retro fitted it to work with your truck somehow (without looking at it i would not know exactly how they did it though).
If this was installed in the truck prior to you redoing the wiring in the engine compartment, then i doubt that the fact that it was installed in there is causing your problem, however that too could have been damaged when you rewired everything, and is not sending the proper signals out to allow the motor to turn over.
I suggest looking at the solenoid in depth and ensuring that all wiring is correctly placed, if so, i would replace the solenoid as it sounds that the solenoid is locked or closed.
Once you have corrected the solenoid and wiring issues attempt to start the vehicle, if it will not start or you again run into the problem, then we will go step by step into the wiring of that solenoid to ensure it is correct, and then we may need to take a look at the EIS that was installed on the truck.
For the future, i recommend that any wiring that need to be done, gets performed by a licensed Automotive Electrician to avoid these types of problems in the future, i have seen customers doing this themselves to make the engine compartment look nicer and neater however they almost always end up bringing it to my shop for repair of something that they miswired when they put it all back together. Please understand i am not saying you are incompetent here just saying that electrical is the most complex part of any vehicle and should only be repaired or replaced by a licensed Automotive Electrician, to save you the time and aggravation that you are going through now, it is well worth the money to not have to go through the current situation you are in, in my opinion.
Good Luck.
Please keep me informed of your progress, I will assist in any way I can.
Thank You.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Antonio, Thanks. The Solenoid was new and wired correctly however after the episode, the starter motor truly did ground out, shorted the batt when I connected directly to the starter. After that prolonged cranking the windings may have burned through to the case. I took the starter out tonight and disassembled. A lot of corrosion, wear etc. Seems like it was just a matter of time. I guess my question to you is could this have fried the solenoid? I have an open loop between every post and ground bracket except the "S" post to the bracket. A direct short. I wouldn't even test for the "click" because I'd short connecting the batt to the bracket and the "S' post, right? I'm assuming that shouldn't be. Bad out of the box or the grounded starter killed it?
Also, I found out that Ford introduced that EIS in '74 on the 300cid six and continued into the '80s. I'll check the engine to see if it's original to the truck. Don't know where the engine code is, though. If it's the original 240 then I guess they just ripped that ignition system out of a post 1974 300cid. and retro fitted.
Thanks so much for your help. I'm ordering a new starter and solenoid and will check the operation of both, isolated before applying that 12v to the "S" post on the solenoid. The ignition switch does send voltage to that lead on the "S" post only in the "START" position like it's supposed to. There is a lead however that was attached to the "I" post which I'm told was used to send 12v directly to the coil durring starting (for the original ignition system with 9v coil and ballast resistor). Whats puzzling is that when I check that lead with my meter (off the post) it shows 12v only in the "RUN" ignition position? Is this correct, to be sending 12v to the solenoid while the engine is running?
AnswerHi Michael,
The answer to your first question is YES. The prolonged cranking definitely could have been what fried your solenoid, in fact im almost certain it is. Do NOT test for the click because you are correct, you would short connecting the battery to the bracket and the s post.
The solenoid should be receiving 12V when running, yes, that is correct. The solenoid has constant power on the BATTERY SIDE of the Solenoid, NOT THE STARTER SIDE. The starter side of the solenoid, should only have one wire on it, the one going from the solenoid to the starter. The "S" post receives power in the "START" position from the ignition wire which engages the plunger that locks the solenoid and engages the starter to start the vehicle, once started, or, "when you release the key after it is running and it goes backwards in the ignition cylinder from the START to RUN position", the wire stops sending power to the "S" post thus disengaging the plunger and turning off the starter, if that makes sense.
Remember you can have multiple wires on the battery side of the solenoid, but ONLY ONE on the starter side.
I Hope this was helpful, good luck with your new starter and solenoid, that should fix the problem, as long as everything is wired properly.
Good Luck
Thank You.
