Question Followup To
Question -
Hi,
my van 1988 Chrysler Voyager V6 3.0 with 3speed auto.
after being parked for 10 minutes it starts hard. idle is abit rough. when i put it in Drive, the RPM jumps to almost 2k. when i switch back to Parking, engine RPM stays at 2500-3000rpm. for about 30 seconds, then idles as when started. when i try to drive it it keeps speed around 40-45Kmh. when i try to go faster the engine starts to choke and the speed falls. after releasing gas pedal it get back to 40-45kmh.
blink code reads 54. I checked the timing and all three markings are in place. what could've happened to my van? any help, directions or suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
thanks.
Rokas
Answer -
Hi Rokas,
Thanks for the detailed description. Are you sure you are getting a code 54 and also a code 55 (end of readout)? If so that means there is a problem with the photooptic sensor that times (synchs) the injectors' fuel pulsing, and that could explain what is happening. That sensor is located in the distributor and I believe that the combo unit consisting of two sensors has to be replaced as a unit. I can give you the instructions for that if you are truly getting the 54 code. Read it out again, and be sure you also get a 55 code after the 54 code.
If you only get the 55 code, then I would suspect you have a problem with a dirty thottle body throat and butterfly valve OR a problem with the exhaust gas recirculation (egr) valve being ajar or sticking open. I can also tell you about how to deal with that. But first please verify the codes before we move on to those possibilities.
Roland
Hi Roland,
thanks for the quick answer. I'm getting codes 12, 54, 55 and then "check engine" starts flashing rapidly like a Morse code. Yesterday the van wouldnt even start..
On the other hand the exhaust system isn't in best condition so I'm thinking that O2 sensor could mess things up a bit, but it never gave a 54 readout. I've tried to change the distributor from another van... no changes.
I'll try to check all the connections, perhaps some ground wire is corroded. But I have no idea where to look for all the sensors. Our Chrysler dealer doesn't have any info on older vans...
Rokas
Answer -
Hi Rokas,
The '88 3.0L I believe has the distributor with two photooptic light sources and sensors in the distributor (4 wires). Some time later it changed to Hall effect sensors, so you would want to be sure that you have the identical sensors set up in another distributor as came with the van. At least that is how I read the history, using the '89 and '93 diagrams for that engine (I don't have the '88).
The distributor wiring is as follows: orange to 7, tan/yellow to pin 44, gray or gray/black to pin 24 and black/light blue to pin 4 at the 60-way plug to the controller. You can count the pins by holding the plug horizontal, with the pins toward you and with the short tap up, and start with 1 at the upper row left side, 21 at the middle row left side, 41 at the lower row left side. If those check out then a new photooptic unit is probably needed.
The procedure to change the sensor in the distributor are:
Disconnect the 4 way electrical connector nearby
Remove distrib cap and inspect
Remove rotor (release screw is under the rotor arm)
Remove protective cover (2 screws)
Remove lead wire (the other end of the 4 wire connector) by removing its clamp hold down screw (this is on the outer circumference of the body)
Remove screw from the center of the shaft, lift off rotor spacer/attachment cylinder
Remove disc spacers and slotted disc and inspect for flatness, cracks, damaged slots
Remove bushing (surrounds the rotor shaft, but has a larger inner diameter than the shaft itself), and remove the 3 screws that retain the photooptic sensor. That is probably as far as you need to dismantle to put in the replacement sensor, if that is indeed the cause of your problem.
So check the wiring and then consider a new protooptic unit.
That would be how I would deal with a code 54.
You could also check that there is not fuel coming out of the injectors by verifying that the spark plugs are dry after you crank it. That is what the synch signal is for.
Roland
Yes, there are 4 wires from the distributor ( i dont remember their colors though). The distributor I switched was from almost the same van (same year, same engine) the only difference that the donor van had separate body block (I believe so) and mine has all in one with two plugs (the box in the beggining of the air intake system). that was the main visual difference.
tonight I'll check conections between distributor and the plug as you suggested. I'll let you know tommorow.
Thanks!
Rokas
Answer -
Hi Rokas,
I just remembered that I have the part catalog for '88 so I'll look into that to see what help that might be, but maybe none.
Let me know what you find out about the wiring. It would be good to stay with parts from identical engine control setups so that might be part of the problem.
Roland
Hi Roland,
I wasn't able to write yesterday. I checked the wires from distributor as you've told. it seems that 89 model had a different SMEC. because the wires on my van doesn't correspond to the pins that you've mentioned. orange goes to the other 14way connector, other three wires go to the 60way plug: tan/yellow to pin 49, gray/black to pin 47, black/light blue to pin 4. wires check out fine. spark is a bit yellowish weak. spark plugs are wet. as i was told the signal to the injector is a bit strange too (don't know yet how strange) is it possible that the SMEC is the fault? we will work on this all night. Got some help from friends. will make all the checks from zero. I will inform you with more detailed information.
thank you for your help.
Rokas
Answer -
Hi Rokas,
I hope the all night effort proved successful. The SMEC is always a possibility for failure. But if you have the other distributor it might be worth substituting the photooptic unit just to satisfy the 54 code. The yellow spark of course would indicate a possible weak spark coil. Have you checked its primary and secondary resistances? The primary should read 1.34 to 1.55 ohms, secondary should be 15,000 to 19,000 ohms (Diamond brand) or 9,000 to 12,000 ohm (Prestolite or Essex) measured from the tower plug to the body of the coil.
Thanks for keeping me up to date. Your '88 with the 14-way and the 60-way plugs is like the SMEC used in the 4 cyl engine in those years. In '89 is when they eliminated the 14 way plug for the 6 cyl. engine it appears.
Roland
Hi Roland,
we spent my time under the hood till 4AM. somehow code 54 disapeared. now only 12,55, and rapid flashing. spark looks ok, but still it seems like the cranckshaft skiped some teeth in timing. the engine is overflooded. we disconnected the injectors and it tryed to start. as soon as we connected the injectors, the motor stays quiet and after some crancking it shoots a major backfire through the exhaust. the camshafts marks are in there places, but there are lots of markings on cranckshaft pulley.
Can you tell me the setting of timing procedure? I also need to know where is which cylinder. because that engine looks like inverted to me. looks like the 1st cylinder is close to trany and not next to the distributor.
Thanks Roland.
Rokas
AnswerHi Rokas,
The cylinders are numbered in the proper order, 1 in front to 6 at rear. Thus the cylinders on each back are 1-3-5 and 2-4-6 from front to rear. The firing order is 123456. BUT here is one confusion: the distributor cap has internal wiring rearrangements (that you can't see) so that the external spark wires are arranged around the cap as 135462 so that the wires are "dressed" to reduce crossing over oneanother. If you have the distrib set up it is like this:
For cyl. #1, when at TDC of compression, the rotor tip points toward the rear of the engine, and the #1 spark wire is coming out of the post on the cap that is facing the rear of the van! So that is why you are confused.
On the timing of the crank and cam pulleys, when the engine is at #1 TDC compression there is a mark on the crankshaft sproket at about 1 o'clock position that should be aligned with a similar mark on the oil pump but to see that you would have to pull off all the pulleys, etc so I would just go by the TDC mark on the crank pulley and verify by probing the motion of the #1 piston through its spark plug hole to tell when it is at TDC. When you have TDC the cam shaft sprockets are supposed to be aligned so that diamond mark near the edge is directly opposite a slot on the alternator bracket (rear bank, remove cover to see diamond) and a slot in the inner timing belt cover flange (front bank, remove the outer cover to see the slot in the inner cover). If you find that the timing marks are out of adjustment there is a proper way to redo the timing belt installation:
www.allpar.com/fix/3liter-timing-belts.html
Spark timing is set at 12 BTDC at idle with the coolant temp sensor plug disconnected and the engine warmed up.
That continuous flashing of the check engine light after you read the codes is something I haven't heard of before. I might consider that the controller is bad, but maybe only as a last resort after verifying the timing marks, the distributor position, the distributor wires and that you are reasonably close to spark timing by the static method.
I have to work myself on a heater core change out on a VW Jetta this weekend so I won't be available at the allexpert site very much if at all. If you absolutely need me, write me at
rfinston@hotmail.com
Roland
