QuestionFor the first time my 1984 Porsche Carrera would not start. Turns out the battery had boiled over so we replaced the battery with a new one. Car still would not start. Had to tow it to my mechanic. Mechanic diagnosis: new fuel pump,new filter, new relay and while he's at it oil change and lubrication. Total: $1150.00. Does this sound right?
He suggested that we replace the manifold gaskets on the intake system since the were getting brittle for $750.00. Does that sound like a fair price?
I would greatly appreciate your input.
Many thanks,
AnswerI'm a bit perplexed by the prices you're quoting. You are no doubt dumbfounded. I don't blame you. Too bad you aren't in my neighborhood...I could do everything for $1,700...wink, wink.
I never really know how to handle questions like yours...usually the prices do seem outrageous to me, but it's been a long while since I've had to deal with Porsche shops. And you didn't indicate if this was a dealer shop or an independent. Usually, the independents are a bit cheaper. Now when I say independent I mean independent Porsche specialty shops, not just the shop that happened to be around the block from where the car was. If were talking about the latter, you need not read on, just skip to the last couple paragraphs.
I think its very, very valuable to use the services of the Porsche dealer or Porsche specialist shop when it comes to diagnosis. I'd be very happy to pay Porsche-trained mechanics to use their Porsche-supplied electronic data analyzers to figure out a bewitching problem.
I assume the mechanic in your case asked you to authorize an hour or two of his time (let's assume @ $75 per hour) to diagnose your no-start problem. If the no-start is now considered the result of the failure of the fuel pump, I would assume the diagnosis charge would be well under an hour...this is a very straight-forward problem.
I checked a well-known supplier of Porsche parts (Performance Products of Southern California) for prices on replacement parts. The fuel pump was listed at $199.95 and the relay for $31.95. The fuel pump would clearly be the most expensive item. This retailer has fairly high prices and I've found their parts to be of very high quality.
So...a fuel pump and filter for less than $210, a relay for $32. Oil at $1.99 a quart and grease to lubricate all the greaseable things...$5. I'm estimating your parts total at less than $300. This means that labor charges, taxes, environmental fees, etc would total $850. Again, estimating a labor rate of $75 per hour, the time estimate for your job must be 10-12 hours. That seems like a lot of hours.
The key thing here is whether it's valuable to you to have this very highly trained specialist making $75 per hour replacing your fuel pump, filter, etc. If he were talking to his pals, he'd be saying, "I could do that blindfolded and with one hand tied behind my back". Now if he had an apprentice working in the shop, these jobs would be the very first delegated down the line.
The fellas at the local oil changer store are perfectly capable of these tasks. What you'd get with the highly trained Porsche Specialist is the advantage that as he/she is doing this I've-done-it-a-million-times task, he/she is much better equipped to look for and identify other potential problems with the car. Hence the suggestions to lube the car and to replace the intake gaskets, for $750. The guys at the oil change place would not notice the intake gasket problems but they might mention the air in your tires is a bit low.
Again, this makes my point...I USUALLY don't mind the bill if the highly trained person uses all that knowledge, craftiness and skill to find potentially dangerous problems, or problems which might cost much more down the road. I ALWAYS mind when that same mechanic changes a light bulb...or even easier, unplugs your fuel pump relay and plugs in the new one. Four seconds. Ten if he sneezes. Bet the bill won't be for 4 seconds of labor.
I'm actually more comfortable with the estimate for replacing the intake gaskets. The parts are $30. The labor is $720. The time might take 8 hours. Probably not, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt. These procedures are a bit more dicey and I could see asking the highly trained mechanic to complete this task. Now...is it really needed?
The sales pitch in the Performance Products catalog says:
"Pinging, back-firing, or a rough running engine can be caused by leaking or torn intake manifold gaskets". Are these the problems you are experiencing? You didn't write to me saying your rough running car wouldn't start. Are these the symptoms the highly trained mechanic noticed while evaluating your no-start situation? I agree that brittle gaskets can be an indicator of a problem, but it doesn't mean they are leaking at their mating surfaces.
Here's another reason to stay with this mechanic. Let's say you haven't exactly spent a lot of time thinking about the maintenance of your little jewel...and consequently the car has pretty much taken care of itself. It might be worth it to have some professionally trained eyes spend some time with your baby. On the other hand, if you have been methodical and particularly attentive to preventive maintenance, then perhaps having the mechanic "spend time" with the car is unnecessary.
Bottom line? What would I do if it were my car? Of course, I'd do all the work myself. This is very basic stuff: take out the old, put in the new. Put in the new just as the old came out. Couldn't be easier. No fine tuning required, no adjustments requiring a finely trained ear, simple. And before I messed with the intake gaskets, I'd prove there were leaks. If there were, it's plenty reason to change them all. If no leaks, there's no problem to fix.
If you don't want to do the work, and you'll consider this mechanic, I'd keep those two estimates VERY separate. One area of work has nothing to do with the other.
It would be a bit of a hassle, challenging that first estimate might be worthwhile. You'll have to do the same math I did and ask the mechanic to explain large differences. Maybe, he'll negotiate down. If not, I'd be prepared to spend $$ to have the car towed elsewhere for a second opinion. I'm willing to bet your mechanic will negotiate down then. Of course, then do you want the guy who's unhappy with his pay to work on your precious car???
If you had taken the car to your very well trusted mechanic of many years, I don't think I would have gotten this question. So obviously there's ??? above your head. I'd appreciate some feedback when it's convenient...I'd like to know what you decided to do.
Dave
PS. One other thing to do if you've got the time...contact your local region of the Porsche Club of America (www.pca.org/) and ask them if they have mechanic recommendations you could consider.
