QuestionHi,
Sorry to bother you.I had a mechanic come and put a new battery in it <can't do the test now,the battery was TOTALLY DEAD and a jump DID NOT help.>Now my hubby is with him in the garage.With the new battery it started right up.Wish me luck.
Thanx.
N.
P.S.If it keeps dying out after this,then what?
Followup To
Question -
Hi,
Can you reply ASAP? My car won't start AT ALL now.:(:(:(:(:(:( I got a jump but it's not holding.As soon as they took the clamps off,it stopped lighting up.The guy used a little machine instead of the traditional from-my-car-to-your-car thing.What do I do now? HELP!
N.Y.
Question -
Hello,
Thank you for the replies.I am going to try to check the belt myself;as for the other things,let a mechanic do it.I am totally clueless about cars;computers are my area.
You never ansered my questions:Will a tuneup fix it?Is the car truly safe to drive?I have 2 children and am not going to risk their safety or mine.That "diagnostic readout box" you mentioned..Isn't that the same as the computer the mechanics hooked it up to?Someone told me to take it to AutoZone and have it tested free..isn't that also the same thing?
Thank you.BTW,it's ok if you post these msgs on your website,on the msg forums.I see a lot of Chysler owners having the same problem.Maybe it will help them.Also;Will a Chrysler dealership charge me to look at it?
Thanx.
N.Y.
Followup To
Question -
Hello.I have an '87 Chrysler New Yorker. It runs well except for lately.<Btw,it has 70,000-something miles on it,believe it or not>.It has a 2.2 Turbo 4 cyl engine.It has been acting up lately..keeps dying out,usually at stop signs or coasting.Lately,WHILE I'm driving!:(It doesn't appear to have anything to do with the weather,though it started last spring and went away,then came back starting October.The mechanics have put in:a new hose,new spark plugs,and a new gas regulator.When they test-drove it,it didn't act up on them.Only for me!:)They hooked it up to the computer but didn't find anything.No trouble codes.But my old spark plugs were black.?
The guy says there's nothing wrong with it and that maybe it needs a tune-up...THEY don't even know!Some others have suggested it needs a throttle postition sensor.I think it's the alternator.The lights dim when it starts acting up.Another guy said I need a new battery.This last one said it's safe to drive...Like that? I don't think so..What if it dies on the highway or something?Dangerous!He said go drive it for a long time.I use it for short trips.Do you think that's why it's doing that?Though I never had this trouble before...I changed the fuel filter last spring.So,what do YOU think? Help!
Thank you,
N.
P.S. The timing chain or whatever needs to be tightened or replaced,could that have something to do with it?
Answer -
Hello again,
Thanks for responding with the test results which verify that the engine controller has not detected any faults.
The fault code system requires that a certain minimal amount of malfunction exits for it to be recognized. It is possible for there to be a malfunction that effects driveability (e.g. stalling) that won't trip a fault code or can't be detected by the controller.
I lean in two directions: one is to take the car to a Chrysler dealer because their mechanics will have more experience with the engine (if the mechanics you have had work on the car are not so experienced). The sorts of things to look at are:
quality of the spark and verify the timing
check fuel pressure (although you said a new gas regulator was installed, so that may not be an issue)
check calibration of the coolant temp sensor and the throttle position sensor
check calibration of the MAP Sensor
check switching of the oxygen sensor
check idle speed motor operation
check engine vacuum
check minimum idle air flow
check valve timing, engine compression, pvc system, exhaust system
Alot of these tests can be performed quickly, and in order, until the problem is identified using a diagnostic readout box in the hands of a skilled tune-up mechanic.
The other direction is to take a chance and throw some dollars at replacing one or more of the sensors (do-it-yourself) that might be involved in problem based upon your observation of the spark plugs being blackened upon removal. That would suggest a problem with the control of the mixture. If you have a volt-ohmmeter the first thing to do would be to test the resistance of the coolant temp sensor which is located on the side of the engine that faces toward the front of the car, in a box between the 3rd and 4th spark plug. You would release the electrical plug (it has a little ear that you gently raise to allow the plug's release) and measure the resistance when the engine is cold. It should be in the range of 7,000 to 13,000 ohms at 70F (higher resistance if the temp is cooler than that). Then reattach the plug and drive the car until the temp gauge is in the normal midscale area. Stop the car, unplug the sensor and re-read the resistance. It should then be in the range of 700 to 1,000 ohms. If it were significantly higher than that, then I would suspect that the sensor is not properly reporting the engine temp to the engine controller so the fuel mixture is running too rich. You would then buy a new sensor, install it in the box, and see if that solves the problem. It might cost in the range of $25, which is about the equivalent of 20 minutes of mechanic's shop time.
There is another sensor, the MAP sensor, that can also be out of calibration but that requires a little bit longer explanation to test. So if you are up to fiddling with this yourself, try the coolant sensor test first. Let me know the results before you buy anything.
On the belt, you can remove the three fasteners that hold the inspection cover in place and look at it for worn surfaces and fraying. And if you have access to some socket wrenches and a handle you can turn the engine by hand to TDC on cylinder #1 and observe whether the hole in the camshaft sprocket lines up with the hole in the inspection cover (before you remove that cover) which would tell you if the belt had slipped. The main difficulty here is that you pretty much have to turn the engine by means of a socket applied to the crankshaft pulley in order to get it to TDC. Another approach is the tweek the starter motor repeatedly to try and get the engine to move to that TDC position exactly (which is a challenge). However, if you remove the spark plugs then you can turn the engine by hand without a wrench, pushing on the crankshaft pulley. I don't know how much experience you have and what tools are available, so I am just throwing out ideas here.
Use your judgement as to your level of competency, erring on the side of prudence.
Roland
P.S. I am responding to your first posting, so as to preserve the history of this exchange; so please reply to this response to maintain the record.
Answer -
Hi Noreen,
To check the belt you will need to remove the two nuts on the top side of the inspection cover (they are on the screws that then also hold the valve cover end in place, but just remove the two nuts without also removing the screws). Then if you look down to about the midline of the plastic inspection housing you will see a bolt head (I think maybe in the range of 10, 11, or 12 mm) that secures the upper half to the lower half of the housing. Remove that bolt also and the upper half of the housing will slide off so as to reveal the belt. Inspect both sides of the belt for cracks, debris, damage, missing teeth, and loose cords along the backbone of the belt. You can move the belt a bit at a time by tweeking the starter motor via the ignition switch and its key.
If the car seems to start reliably after it stalls it should be safe to drive around town. I would be more concerned to have a car that stalls when on the highway or freeway where the traffic is moving fast and you are forced to get quickly to the side of the road when it stalls.
I don't think I would ask for a tune-up at this point given that the other mechanics have done most of the routine items involved in a tuneup. Rather, I would ask at a reliable Chysler or Dodge shop to have them determine what is causing the stalling and to repair just that. Bring along any receipts showing what other parts have been replaced recently so as let them know what parts clearly don't need to be replaced again and what they have already tried to do.
As to the diagnostic readout box, there are two levels of such units: one just reads out fault codes, the other will be able to readout all the operating parameters of the sensors and also can actuate various of the electrical-mechanical parts that are involved in the engine opeation.
For your '87 the Chrysler unit is called a DRB II. I don't know whether the shop that read the codes just has a simple reader or something like the DRB II unit. I don't believe Autozone would have one, I think they only will test your charging system for free. I know that you think the alternator might be the cause because the lights dim when the engine stalls but that is more likely an effect of the stall rather the cause of the stall. Unfortunately I doubt if the Chrysler dealer will do anything for free. But what you may find, if it is a good shop with an experienced tune up mechanic, that he will be able to figure out why the engine is stalling in much less time than someone who has less experience with the engine in question. That is what my experience was when I had a stall during a trip. A seasoned mechanic who didn't specialize in Chrysler couldn't figure out the 'no start', but the dealer's mechanic diagnosed it with the DRB and replaced the faulty part in 15 minutes of labor time. So I am hoping you might have a similar experience, though I can't guarantee it.
If you have any interest in learning more about your engine and doing some repairs, then checking out the coolant sensor as I described earlier may be a good introduction. I am going by the sooty plugs on that theory.
The other common reason for stalling is a part in the distributor called the Hall effect sensor. It too is easy to replace. But the only thing that doesn't jive with your situation is that when it gets flakey it should have set a fault code #11. But that is not happening. It might be that it is failing for such a short amount of time that it isn't tripping the code detection system, but I haven't heard of such a case before. Usually when it fails, the engine won't restart right away, but when it cools down for a few minutes the engine will restart. But yours appears to restart pretty quickly. So that sensor may be o.k.
Anyhow, I'll let you decide how you want to go from here.
Roland
Answer -
Hi Noreen,
Sorry to keep you waiting...it's 6:45 here on the West Coast. You have "progressed" to what is called "no start".
Now we may have a new opportunity: time to recheck the engine controller for fault codes. Take your ignition key and go: on-off-on-off-on and leave it in the on position. Do this switching quickly, in less than 5 seconds. Then watch the "power loss" light to start flashing, pause, flashing, pause, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause, and write them down. Then do it again to make sure you have the numbers of flashes exactly correct. Then get back to me with the results.
Roland
AnswerHi Noreen,
Well maybe the battery was flakey and that was causing the engine to stall, though the alternator is supposed to put out sufficient voltage and current to operate the engine without the battery (at least at road speed, but maybe not with lights on and the engine near idle speed in which case it could well stall out). So let me know if this solves the problem or not.
Roland
